Anonymous asks:
G’day Will,
I was raised to believe that hell was a place of eternal torment.
I always had trouble accepting this teaching, as it seemed contrary to God’s character and that it seemed to be playing a role in turning people away from God……. “If God could be so mean and nasty as to painfully torture people in hell for eternity, then I don’t want anything to do with God”….. Perhaps you may have heard someone even speak these very words.
Strangely, I believe the bible does not teach this at all (eternal torment – eternal life in hell)
Eternal life is a gift, by the grace of God, to those whom give their hearts to Jesus. The alternative is to “perish”. The Lord shall “burn them up” to become “ashes”, leaving them “neither root nor branch”.
They “shall go away into everlasting punishment” and this punishment is to be eternally cut off from God, by death.
Jesus makes it ever so clear;
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
Interestingly, it was the devil who was first to suggest that sinners would not die (Genesis 3:4). A hell where sinners never perish would prove the devil right.
Question: Can you please share some of your thoughts about this subject? What is it that you believe?
Thanks
Hi Anonymous,
I thought I had blogged about this topic before but I can’t seem to find it. If I do I’ll update this post with the link.
The view you are describing is a form of annihilationism with which I have some sympathy. In this view the hope of the gospel for salvation is towards eternal life forever in the peace and presence of God. But the question remains as to what happens to those who do not come to faith but choose to remain in their rebellion. Some say that all people will eventually come to faith (universalism, something I disagree with), or that those who do not trust in Jesus remain eternally in the power of their sin (the “traditional” eternal damnation viewpoint), or, as you espouse, that those who are not in Christ do no attain to the “eternal” as well as the “life” of “eternal life.”
There are some variations in the position – as to when the “ceasing to be” might happen – depending on the nuances of one’s eschatology – e.g. does it take place at death, before a millennium, after a millennium etc. My view is that for annihilationism to have any biblical justification it must be taken to be in effect post-judgement.
For me it is not a first order black-and-white issue. There are complexities around what the Bible means at various places by “death”, “second death”, “perishing”, “punishment” etc. Sometimes death is clearly relational only, sometimes it may be ontological. Some stories (such as Lazarus and the Rich Man) presuppose an ongoing existence, but possibly only during an intermediate time before the final judgement.
My response is:
1) To firstly assert the clear positive, the hope of the gospel is eternal life in and with Jesus Christ our Lord in the glory of God our Father. 1 Corinthians 15 makes the immortality of resurrection life very clear.
2) Turning to the back of the book, Revelation 19 and 20 refers to the imagery of a “lake of fire that burns with sulfur” (19:20). This lake of fire is interacted with as follows:
- 19:20-21 The beast and the false prophet are “thrown alive” into the lake – yet the rest (kings of the earth) were simply killed.
- 20:9-10 The devil is thrown into the lake, but those who are with him (nations gathered for battle) are “consumed” by fire from heaven.
- 20:10 The torment of the devil, beast and false prophet is clearly “day and night forever and ever”
- 20:14 Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire.
- 20:14 The lake of fire is described as “the second death”
- 20:15 “Anyone whose name is not written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Hope this helps,
W.
G’day Will,
Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my question.
I’ve written to you anonymously (sabbath, baptism, intermediate state, evolution, hell) initially to keep the focus on the subject at hand – but it occurred to me that you might really want to know who you’ve been communicating with. Sorry if I caused you any paranoia (hehe) – It’s Mick. Yes, your oldest and dearest childhood friend Mick – Still talking with his good friend Blogsy about God. You know I find it very heart warming to look back at my old grade 5 school books and see ‘Jesus saves‘ written all over them in tippex – I wonder if yours are the same. Hope you and the family are well. Looking forward to seeing you guys again sometime soon.
Soooo – On the subject of hell – It seems that we agree (in part). Yeah!
It seems that a common “new age” belief is closely related to satan’s first deception – that we will not die and that we are all evolving into gods. To my understanding, the belief in an immortal soul, seemingly propelled into popular culture through Greek mythology/philosophy, has lead Christians to the concept of eternal punishing/torment in hell. This is also, to my understanding, the leading factor for why many believe that when we die, prior to the resurrection, we actually carry on consciously living, be it in another form – the time period you refer to as the intermediate state.
Strangely, it saddens my heart to think that even satan could be tormented eternally.
My personal belief regarding the character of God tells me that God will eventually destroy satan. I don’t believe that God, in His wonderful universe, will have a “junk yard” hidden out the back for eternity. I do believe that satan will be tormented for a time, but that his final punishment will be annihilation.
At first glance Rev 20:10 seems to indicate that the doom of satan, beast and false prophet is eternal, unceasing torment – Seeming how we often relate the phrase ‘forever and ever’ with eternity. But, as I’m sure you’re aware, the original Greek “eis tous aiónas tón aiónón” is “for the ages of the ages”, where an “age” is a determined period of time. So it could be understood that satan will be tormented day and night for ages (an allotted time) within the ages that will continue to stretch out into eternity.
Therefore when we then consider, for example, Rev 4:10 “…..and worship him that liveth for ever and ever,…” we might understand that “…to the ages of the ages….” is still an allotted time, but in the case of how long God lives the allotted time is eternal.
To my understanding Rev 20:10 is the only passage alluding to eternal torment for satan, but when we consider the “ages of the ages” factor and also compare it with other passages, it seems to indicate that satan will not live on eternally.
Heb 2:14 ”Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil”
Ezekiel 28:16, 19 “…….therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.”……“All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”
Isaiah 14:15 “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.” – hell = sheol – place to which people descend at death.
In the end I’m sure we agree though that the important thing is to lift our eyes and open our hearts to God. Loving, forgiving, giving and growing in the peace and power of Jesus Christ our Lord. Regardless of what I do and don’t understand about God’s great plan, I’m so thankful to have Him in my life.
Cheers my friend.
Mick………