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Q&A: As an Anglican, what do you believe [about the intermediate state]?

October 1st, 2011.

Anonymous asks:

Hi Will,

Growing up, I was taught that when a person dies they go directly to heaven or hell. Of course the biblical teachings of the “resurrection of life” and the “resurrection of damnation” seem to contradict this view. To overcome this discrepancy, as I am aware, some teach that the resurrection only involves the physical body and that the dead, prior to their resurrection, are consciously aware and living in “spirit”. This teaching, to my understanding, is not cohesive with Scripture in it’s entirety, and in a number of instances I find it completely incompatible, both in it’s application and to the very nature of God.

I believe the bible is very clear on the matter – The dead know nothing. Unconsciously, ceasing to be, until Jesus resurrects us from the dead. – When we consider the application it truly is remarkable – for within a state of unconsciousness time is no more. Between death and the resurrection is like a “blink of an eye” – and – we all are brought to God at the same time. A remarkably beautiful reunion.

I am curious. As an Anglican, what do you believe?

Thanks

Hi Anon and thanks for the question.  This is the topic of the Intermediate State and is a subject that has received much debate over the years/centuries.

You specifically ask me “as an Anglican” so I’ll start there.

The 39 articles are not particularly attentive to the “Intermediate State” but they do reject the form of it that is clearly extra-biblical, and that is the concept of purgatory around which a Roman Catholic sacramental system was cemented.  Article XXII clearly states that purgatory is “a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.”  In all that I talk about below I am not talking about purgatory.

The 1662 Book of Common Prayer includes much eschatological language and expressions of eternal hope – these do not interact with the question at hand because they allude to the final state.  We must note, however, that in the intermediate time the BCP draws upon a framework of “Christ’s Church militant here in earth” and the “Church Triumphant” who in some sense are present with Jesus.  And so we see, for instance:

The glorious company of the Apostles : praise thee.
The goodly fellowship of the Prophets : praise thee.
The noble army of Martyrs : praise thee.
The holy Church throughout all the world : doth acknowledge thee

– Te Deum Laudamus, Morning Prayer

THEREFORE with Angels and Archangels, and with all the company of heaven, we laud and magnify thy glorious Name; evermore praising thee, and saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God of hosts, heaven and earth are full of thy glory: Glory be to thee, O Lord most High. Amen

– Preface in Communion

We meekly beseech thee, 0 Father, to raise us from the death of sin unto the life of righteousness; that, when we shall depart this life, we may rest in him, as our hope is this our brother doth; and that, at the general Resurrection in the last day, we may be found acceptable in thy sight; and receive that blessing, which thy well-beloved Son shall then pronounce to all that love and fear thee, saying, Come, ye blessed children of my Father, receive the kingdom prepared for you from the beginning of the world: Grant this, we beseech thee, 0 merciful Father, through Jesus Christ, our Mediator and Redeemer. Amen.

– Collect in Holy Burial

Language such as this implies an intermediate state, associates it with rest and peace  and worship – but does not equate it with the culmination of the kingdom or the ultimate resurrection.  This is  in line with more recently espoused Anglican theology such as that of N. T. Wright (I reviewed the book of his that most engages with this topic) who decries an escapist framework whereby the gospel is couched in terms of departing to heaven when we die, rather than in terms of seeing the Kingdom of God come to this earth in its fullness when we are raised from the dead.  N. T. Wright’s framework only holds together exegetically if some passages of Scripture are seen to be referring to the ultimate resurrection and other passages are seen to be referring to an intermediate state.

You say “the bible is very clear on the matter.”  It would be helpful if you could point me to the parts of the Bible which you draw on to provide that clarity.  It’s hard to engage otherwise.

There are certainly parts of Scripture that do seem to clearly imply an intermediate state.  From the fact that Samuel can appear before the witch of Endor, and the framework undergirding the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, to affirmations from Jesus that the thief on the cross will be with him that day in paradise, and references to a great cloud of saintly witnesses.

I have certain degree of sympathy with your view, and recognise its beauty.  I have a friend, a mechanical engineer, who suggests that in the intermediate state time is shaped as a parabola so that no matter at what point you enter it you get to the end at the same time – we, who die before the parousia, all arrive together to accompany the bridegroom to collect his bride.  That too, has beauty.

In the end, I am comfortable with a post-death pre-resurrection form of existence as the church triumphant celebrates and awaits the fullness of the Kingdom of God.  But whatever the viewpoint, the eventual promise is the same, and that is what is at the heart of the gospel.

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2 comments for “Q&A: As an Anglican, what do you believe [about the intermediate state]?”

  1. Anonymous says:

    Thanks for your reply Will.
    I agree wholeheartedly with you that, whatever the viewpoint, the eventual promise is the same, and that is what is at the heart of the gospel. This can be said about every single aspect of the gospel, but perhaps it is wise to walk in truth. Hence the bible, prayerfully in Christ, has so much to teach us.

    For me, the heart of the matter in determining the truth about the state of the dead (prior to the first resurrection) is to ultimately avoid spiritual deceptions – Satan and his fallen angels deceiving many through their “encounters with the dead” – a dearly departed loved one, a mother, a father, a spiritual guide….. the virgin Mary. “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”(2 Corinthians 11:14) These encounters are often commented on, by those whom experience the manifestation, as being loving, up-lifting, enlightening, seemingly posing no great threat to one’s faith in Jesus Christ, or even, on the surface, appearing to support biblical truth. But when we take the time to contemplate the messages being taught by these “dead people”, in the light of scripture, we can often see the subtle preaching of their own “gospel” that is contrary to and opposing the truth we have in Jesus Christ. These are deceptive “seeds” that can go un-noticed long enough to bear roots. – In my view, the most deceptive of these manifestations currently is that of the virgin Mary.

    However, if someone were to believe that the dead had a “form of existence” (as yourself) AND also believed that these dead could not, or simply do not, communicate with the living, then, although I would disagree with the former, the latter would render me no need to express to them otherwise. (perhaps this is the case with you)

    You said that it would be helpful if I could point you to the parts of the Bible which I draw on to provide clarity, so below I have mentioned some of those passages and I have also commented on the passages that you indicated implies an intermediate state. (by the way – I sense that we both agree that there is indeed an intermediate state. The question being; Is this intermediate state (what I call the ‘state of the dead’) a state of existence or non-existence? A state of consciousness or unconsciousness? A state of life or death?)

    Genesis 2:7 “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
    The Hebrew word behind spirit is ruach, and it means “air in motion.” It is the same word for “breath.” It also means “life.” By resemblance to breath and air in motion, it means “spirit.” That’s where we get the translation, and the Hebrew word contains all those different meanings. – Therefore; Dust + Breath of Life (spirit) = Living Soul (living being/creature) – at death our body and breath are separated and we cease living.
    “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (breath of life) shall return unto God who gave it.” Ecclesiastes 12:7 – So when Stephen, for example, called upon God saying “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”- spirit being the Greek word pneuma, meaning breath – He was entrusting to God His very breath of life. His life force – The very breath of life that God gives us all.
    Genesis 6:3 “And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.” The Contemporary English Version reads “Then the LORD said, I won’t let my life-giving breath remain in anyone forever.”

    Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

    Ecclesiastes 9:10 “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.”

    Psalm 146:3-4 “Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.”

    Psalms 6:3-5 “My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake. For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”

    Psalm 30:9 “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?”

    Psalm 88:11-12 “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?”

    Isaiah 38:18-19 “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.”

    Psalm 16:10-11 “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.”

    Psalm 17:15 “As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.”

    John 5:28-29 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

    Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.”

    Acts 2:31 “He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.”

    Job 14:10-14 “But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

    Samuel and the witch of Endor.
    Does this story indicate that after death we continue on in a conscious form, prior to the first resurrection?
    This story often raises the question; Did Saul speak to the real Samuel, or was this “Samuel” actually a deceptive manifestation?
    To my understanding, either view would not give a definitive answer on the state of the dead. However, if this truly was Samuel, and he was telling the truth, then we should seriously consider verse 9 “The LORD will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me.”
    Firstly, the witch said that she saw “gods” or, “a ghostly figure”niv, ascending out of the earth. This may indicate that Samuel came out from the grave (not a heavenly realm) and so too Saul will join him tomorrow. Putting this aside however (what the witch said she saw), we should consider Samuel’s “…will be with me.” statement in more depth;
    Question: From our biblical understanding, would we consider Samuel to be “Saved”? Although only God can determine our salvation it would be fair to say that yes, Samuel appeared to be a man of God, and one might expect that he will have eternal salvation.
    Question: From our biblical understanding, would we consider Saul to be “Saved”? Again, salvation is by God alone and only He knows our heart, but it might be fair to say that at the time of Saul’s death, his suicide, that he was apart from the Lord.
    So, and I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this Will, in comes the question; Are the righteous and unrighteous in the same place now? – According to my biblical understanding of the state of the dead the answer is yes. Both the righteous and unrighteous are in their graves, where they “know not anything”, where “their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished”, awaiting “for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. – To reconcile Samuel’s statement “ tomorrow you and your sons will be with me” otherwise we would need to consider that either Samuel is not telling the truth (which, if he is truly Samuel, would in itself seem faulty) or that Saul actually receives salvation. Hence why many will claim “once saved always saved”.

    However, having said all this, I find it difficult to conclude that Saul was indeed talking to the real Samuel.
    Please consider;
    In 1Sam28:6 it says “And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.” Question: If the Lord would not answer Saul by prophet when he enquired of the Lord directly, then why would God answer Saul through a witch, a necromancer? – “For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.” Duet 18:12 If dead people immediately live on in some conscious form, prior to the resurrection, why would God call it an abomination for our dead relatives/friends to communicate with us? Perhaps because our dead relatives are in the grave, and these manifestations are fallen angels masquerading in the form of dead loved ones. In my opinion the Virgin Mary apparitions are the greatest of these falsehoods, deceptively distorting truth and drawing worship away from our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Again in 1Sam28:15 Saul says “…..God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee..” Question: Again, if God was not answering Saul by prophet, then is Saul receiving an answer from someone else via a “prophet”? – within a few short verses it is stated repeatedly that the Lord answered Saul not and that God had departed from him and “Samuel” even asks Saul “Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has departed from you and become your enemy?” Is the author trying to remind us that God is not involved in this witchcraft?

    The Lazarus/Rich Man Parable.
    This story, as it is a parable, does not give us a definitive answer on the state of the dead either. And as it is a parable it, by my understanding, does not contradict the many biblical passages that I have quoted above regarding the state of the dead. To my understanding, the main message of this parable is that today is the day of our salvation and, just as trees don’t really talk (Judges 9:8-15), Jesus conveys truth via a conversation spanning heaven and hell.
    If there are people in hell now, suffering, are they going to be resurrected after the 1000years simply to be tortured some more? Does this make any sense? “Come now, let us reason together” Isaiah 1:18
    When Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead (John 11) was he, Lazarus, removed from his heavenly comfort and brought back to a sinful world? Does this seem like a loving thing to do? Or was Lazarus actually in a state of rest, of unconsciousness?

    Thief on the cross.
    It is true that if we simply move the comma then the statement reads very differently, but, putting this editorial speculation aside, we simply need to ask the question – Was Jesus in paradise on that day? Or did he not rise again the third day?

    Great cloud of (saintly) witnesses
    If this is referencing Hebrews 12:1 then it’s important to note that there is no mention of saints in this verse. “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,….”KJV

    Matthew 27:52-53
    If I am honest with you, and indeed myself, then I could not overlook this passage.
    “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
    This passage seems to be in conflict with Job 14:12 “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” – But perhaps understanding can be found in the original Hebrew word ya-kum : abide, accomplish, continue – in that when, perhaps, the “saints which slept arose” (Original Greek word ēgerthēsan: awake, lift up, arouse) they, like Lazarus, continued on an earthly existence until again they would die. Serving as a testimony to Jesus our saviour, hence “… and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

    As far as I see, to believe that the dead (prior to the first resurrection) are in an unconscious sleep and, therefore, finding only one challenging passage to reconcile is far more logical then believing that the dead are now (prior to the first resurrection) in a conscious form – ie living – and finding multiple biblical passages that clearly state the opposite – “the dead know not anything” : After all John 5:29 says “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life..” – If we have returned to the dust and the life breath of God (spirit) has returned to Him and therefore we cease to be, then the “resurrection of life” is indeed a beautiful blessing – but if we are already alive (in what ever state that is) then the resurrection of life somehow seems redundant. For it is NOT the resurrection of the fullness of life, or the resurrection of more life – but simply (and remarkably) the resurrection of life.

    As I wrote to you initially: I believe the bible is very clear on the matter – The dead know nothing. Unconsciously, ceasing to be, until Jesus resurrects us from the dead. Of course I am very cautious to make it clear that “I believe” the bible is clear – As I’m sure you’re aware, two people could look at the same tree and one might see the tree as proof of God and the other might see it as proof of no God.

    Thanks again for your previous reply Will and thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
    If you have any other thoughts to share they are most welcome. If not, all the best and God bless.

  2. Sean Hugh says:

    I stumbled across this discussion when looking for something else. I am currently writing a doctoral thesis at Oxford on the development of the Intermediate State in Anglicanism. There is a concurrent teaching for this in both the process of the compoisiton of the X Articles to the XXIX Articles, as well as in devotional literature and in the Caroline Divines. It is very interesting to see however how there was a deliberate attempt (specifically in the various changes made in the editionso the BCP to eradicate this tradition which is firmly rooted in Anglican theology). For example the very small addition of the intercession for the “Church Militant on Earth” replaced a more Catholic prayer which also included the dead.
    If anybody is interesed more in this I would be happy to exaplain more.

    S.

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